Persuading People To Death - When Self Help Turns Deadly

I want to start this post with complete transparency by saying five things:

1. I don't have all the details about what happened in Sedona at the James Arthur Ray Spiritual Warrior event where two people died and 19 were seriously injured in a "sweat lodge ceremony." This is the first public, first hand account of what happened to my knowledge. I provide this link only as a first hand account, I do not agree with most of the additional information that either woman shares, they are still espousing new age psychobabble. UPDATE 10/15/09 - Sweat lodge deaths now being investigated as a homicide. UPDATE: 10/19/09 - Third death from the sweat lodge incident.

2. I'm an outspoken advocate of pushing your personal limits physically, psychologically, and emotionally in order to grow and experience the full possibility of the human condition . . . with some obvious limits and controls and a complete understanding of the risk involved.

3. I'm an outspoken critic of "The Law of Attraction," "The Secret" and any other versions of those beliefs, I hosted a two hour discussion with Psychological professionals, television producers and persuasion experts at www.thetruthisthesecret.com

4. I have participated in sweat lodges and events that included them in the past.

5. I have and still do teach personal development workshops and do transformative travel that causes people to push their limits. And, when doing anything that might have risk associated with it, have properly trained and equipped emergency staff and only highly skilled, qualified and certified instructors on hand to supervise and train, no exceptions.

The real purpose of this article is to explore how people get persuaded to a point where they will follow anyone and do anything regardless of how illogical or dangerous it seems. There are also going to be some business lessons here as well. I hope you'll find the article interesting, if you do, please share the link with others and leave your comments below.

By now you've probably read about the sweat lodge deaths at a James Arthur Ray "Spiritual Warrior" training in Sedona, AZ.

The question most often asked is "what convinces or how do you convince people to take actions that on closer inspection are so obviously illogical?"

The answers are unfortunately easy . . . and complicated. I've bolded the important thinking errors, conditioned responses, psychological principles, and persuasion principles throughout the article so you can easily do more research if you choose.

What I'm about to say is a little bit of a generalization but it is an important thinking error that is easily exploited. We all tend to think that we are smarter, better, stronger, more capable, and that limitations that apply to others don't apply to us. That thinking may be a result of previous experience, training, or and this is especially dangerous, beliefs that come from authority figures or their books of knowledge. For example, when I was a child, we went to a Pentecostal church where snake handling was a part of the worship based on the scripture from the bible: "And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (Mark 16:17-18) "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." (Luke 10:19). Unfortunately, those beliefs don't always prove true and turn deadly.

As a species many of us want to believe that we have a connection to a higher power that gives us special abilities or that that power exists and that if we do a certain set of exercises. For example, fasting, prayer, sensory deprivation, or any number of other measures are designed to demonstrate our commitment or dominion over our physical bodies, our psychology or our physiology. When positive the results are used to demonstrate enlightenment, when negative, they results are often used to demonstrate a lack of understanding or commitment.

As humans we also tend to be intensely philosophically and intellectually curious about our origins as a species. We wrestle with big questions, is there a literal God, from where or what is meaning derived, can that source if it exists be touched or connected with, what happens when we die? All of those questions cause people to speculate, test and explore. Some choose hallucinogens, some study, some choose extreme religious faith, others choose cults like the one in which I was raised. Still others are seemingly not bothered by any of it.

One of the other thinking errors that exists around this kind of thinking and many other kinds of deletions and distortions that allow manipulation to occur is metaphorical subterfuge. For example, when studied carefully, the whole New Age system of belief is a metaphorical description of traditional religious beliefs. For example, The Universe is no different than God, it is ascribed supernatural power or possesses laws that impact everyone. The Law Of Attraction says you get what you think about and religious holdings give that you get what you deserve, cause and effect, if you pray well, God answers prayer. Now, I'm not passing judgment on any religion, simply showing how when different labels are used, something old looks new again.

Additionally, the current overload of information and lack of thorough, logical thinking, and rampant belief of what is written on the internet as factual. Many people fail to get enough correct information to make a proper decision about something they are going to attempt. Their lack of thorough investigation often causes faulty conclusions and further dissemination of ideas that are not based in fact.

As a society we've become accustomed to looking for the "magic pill," that one simple solution that will guarantee our success at anything. How many times have you seen ads for diets, sexual aids, dating, life extension, fitness, health and on and on? The reality is that there are three things everyone wants, they want to know how to get laid, how to get paid and how to live forever. If you promise a magic bullet that will offer them wealth, health, and sex, a large majority of the population will try it, especially if it is inexpensive enough that the risk seems low even if it doesn't work.

People also tend to believe that others have access to secret or hidden information that is the key to their success and the reason for the seekers lack of success. Many are willing to invest large sums of money in order to have access to exclusive knowledge, to find the hidden keys they've been missing to achieve enlightenment. Exclusivity is a very powerful persuasion tool.

Closely linked to exclusivity is Social proof (monkey see, monkey do). Social proof is also a very powerfully persuasive motivator for many people. when an individual sees another person do something with apparent safety and with apparently positive results they are much more inclined to do it. When in a group and everyone else is doing it, it is much easier to go along. And when told to do something by an authority figure obedience and compliance is much more likely as evidenced by The Milgram Experiment. The following video is an essential study in obedience.

So those are just a few of the thinking errors and conditioned behaviors that exist that allow seminar leaders (and marketers and salespeople and ministers) to cause people to take actions that they might not otherwise take or that they might strongly question. With that in mind let's look at the James Arthur Ray situation based on what we know from what has been published and from what is published on his website. Let's start with this from his spiritual warrior event description from his website:

    "In Spiritual Warrior, you'll build upon what you started in Practical Mysticism. You'll become privy to techniques (many kept secret for dozens of generations) that I searched out in the mountains of Peru, the jungles of the Amazon (and a few other places I don't care to recall).

    Mastering these (quite esoteric) practices required me to think and act more differently than I've ever had to before. At first it was quite grueling, but the results...well...all I can say is, "Wow!"

    It wasn't until I had completely mastered these concepts and techniques that I was able to combine them with state of the art scientific technology and, as always, create practical real-life applications (you should know my style by now)."

These three paragraphs (and a couple leading into it talking about how we've been taught to be conformists and must break free of conformity to succeed like Bill Gates) demonstrate exactly how preconditioning starts. You are told that you'll become privy to techniques "kept secrets for generations" that he "searched out in the Mountains of Peru, the jungles of The Amazon, and a few places he doesn't care to recall." With those sentences he further ascribes himself special powers which further builds on his status as a spiritual teach from the movie "The Secret." Only he was able to seek out these mysterious secrets in these exotic locales (plus others which by implication must have been grueling and dangerous, lucky we don't have to do all that work or go to the obvious expense of traveling there and investigating). And, in the Christian religious tradition, lucky that Jesus died on the cross for your sins so that you wouldn't have to. The correlation to the Jesus story is barely veiled and it follows the arc of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey. (For serious students, The Hero's Journey by Joseph Campbell is a must watch video).

His website goes on to state:

• You'll experience, at the spiritual level, the ancient methodologies of Samurai Warriors; and gain a true understanding of the authority and strength that come from a life of honor... 

    Look, you've most probably spent your whole life staying within the lines to get what you've got (or at least a major portion of it). Join me outside the lines in this heroic quest for higher consciousness...

There is no sacrifice—only greater and more magnificent results, wealth, adventure and fulfillment.

    You owe it to the rest of your life to get to Spiritual Warrior as quickly as you can. The investment is ONLY $9695 per person. "

Ok, the conditioning and layers of suggested authenticity and proof continue. "You'll experience at the spiritual level the ancient methodologies of the samurai (what does that even mean? Sounds impressive but the methods of the samurai were military in nature, spiritually, one of the beliefs of Samurai was that their souls resided in their swords and they also often practiced ritual suicide Seppuku, when faced with defeat or dishonor). By using vague language and pointing to rituals, societies and traditions that most don't really understand they imply (implication is another powerful persuasion tool that causes people to accurately or inaccurately draw conclusions based on context)

"Join me outside the lines in this quest for higher consciousness." This sentence is interesting because it encourages people to join together and participate as a group "outside the lines." The only problem is that group dynamics work best when there is a group.

"There is no sacrifice - only greater and more magnificent results, wealth, adventure and fulfillment." Again, the magic pill appears, offering wealth, adventure, fulfillment if you'll only invest $9695 per person to be a part of this group dynamic experience. That amount of money creates a great sense of exclusivity because only a very small number of people can afford to invest that amount in themselves. The other interesting thing about the sentence is that it sets up the very high fee (There is no sacrifice, only greater and more magnificent results, so no matter what it takes to get the money is not a sacrifice, it is only assurance of greater results, justifying whatever you need to do to attend).

So what happened in the lodge, well, I wasn't there so I can't say, but by first hand accounts, there were several pre-cursors that set the incident up. First, fasting for 36 hours. Fasting causes a dramatic shift in body physiology, according to one report published on the National Institutes of Health, Several hormonal changes occur during fasting, including a fall in insulin and T3 levels and a rise in glucagon and reverse T3 levels. Most studies of fasting have used obese persons and results may not always apply to lean persons. Medical complications seen in fasting include gout and urate nephrolithiasis, postural hypotension and cardiac arrhythmias.

Before the sweat lodge they were given about 4 hours to consume a large buffet style breakfast (cramming your body with food alters body chemistry and physiology). Electrolyte balances are also compromised in a sweat lodge and during fasting.

The real challenge is that people were charged to "play full out" meaning to push past limits, to stick it out if it was painful, to ignore their bodies early warning systems. They were also subjected to two hours of extreme heat in a sweat lodge in the Arizona desert. Even saunas give warnings to sip water and to not prolong exposure. One of James Ray's Quotes is that "Your life begins at the end of your comfort zone." While that quote by itself may seem reasonable, it also encourages people to look around them and see what others are doing and choosing to accept their boundaries rather than listen to themselves.

Now let me be clear, I don't think that James Ray is a sociopath in the clinical sense of the word. I also don't believe that he had any intention of causing physical death or harm. That also does not release him from responsibility for what happened. His behavior afterward has also bordered on Narcissistic, his statement at another event that he conducted only days after the deaths demonstrate that. His focus is on himself and how he'll cope much more than an outpouring of concern and support for the families and others injured at his event.

So, here is what the process looks like that causes people in large group formats, particularly those around spiritual self help, to make poor decisions. 

1. Point to people's shortcomings, their missed hopes and dreams. Where possible tie them to existing large belief sets around religion or philosophical constructs that appear to support the behavior they hope to learn as being the cause of the missed hopes and dreams.
2. Suggest that there is knowledge that exists, that has always existed, that is available if you know how to access it.
3. Position a charismatic talking head as the leader and dispenser of the secrets
4. Demonstrate how the leader has persevered and learned these secrets and is now willing to reveal them to you.
5. Tie the knowledge to mystical practices, to ancient civilizations or societies, to supposed "laws" or mystical places.
6. Make very tenuous ties (social proof) back to science, particularly science that most people don't understand (quantum physics)
7. Make the acceptance of the secrets exclusive (often based on price).
8. Encourage people to act alike, dress alike, pray together, and to take progressively more aggressive behaviors together. Have them shave their heads, fast, engage in exhaustive prayer, deprive them of sleep, food, contact with others, use noise and light discipline. Practice sensory overload or deprivation. Discourage logical thinking and reward faith. Encourage them by telling them that pushing past their boundaries is part of their initiation into this new way of being. Have them value being misunderstood by their peers and use that lack of understanding by their peers as a validation that they are in fact moving in the right direction.
9. Offer them progressively more esoteric opportunities (for more money) with no real quantifiable measurable results.
10. Give the groups names, rites of passage, special ways of knowing or recognizing each other. Forbid them from sharing the secret knowledge or events that occurred during their initiation with others so that those people should they become enlightened enough are not deprived of the opportunity to fully experience what is happening.
11. When things go wrong, bring it back to the leader's pain, rally the true believers around him, get them to talk about how terrible the leader feels and have them express what his internal condition is, make it about his suffering not that of the affected. Turn the attention to the teachings and the teacher not the failure.

There is a very big shift that happens for many people at these Large Group Awareness Movements and it is thoroughly explained in detail in a book called Snapping. The book is written by two well accomplished psychologists, I strongly recommend reading it. 

Ok, all that said, I remain an advocate of properly challenging your body and your mind. I do believe that personal strength and mental toughness are qualities to be admired and achieved. I also believe that in order to properly do either you must have the right training and supervision. You'd never jump out of a plane with a parachute without instruction unless your life depended on it and not doing so meant certain death. So, always strive to be better, but understand that not everyone has your best interest at heart and that manipulators do exist. Watch for the signs and take appropriate action. Bottom line, if you are pushing yourself and you feel like you've reached a limit, stop the activity. There is a time to question authority and gurus, no matter who they are do not deserve to be revered at all costs.

So, that is an explanation of how people might get to a point where they would push themselves beyond their normal, logical limits based on the teachings of a guru. I look forward to your thoughts and feedback. Please link to this, tweet about it and put it up on your blog and facebook page if you enjoy it. If you have other comments or disagree, feel free to post those too, I'll leave all comments up as long as they are appropriate.

As I find additional posts that I find insightful, I'll add them to the bottom of this article.

Here is another interesting blog post about the incident.

From Beyond Growth.

Comments

[Jim Constantine]

Well said Dave! This tragedy wouldn't have happened if those in charge had understood the physical limits of the human body.

I traveled a simular road in my life, and came to the realization that By seeking truth anyone can experience enlightenment.

[www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1570656848]

Three Cheers for Dave! Great piece which needed to be written.

In my humble opinion James Arthur Ray is one of the biggest frauds that has come down the Personal Development Pike in a long time. From the moment I saw him on the original "The Secret" video that was floating around the internet prior to it getting mass media attention by Oprah, my vibe was "watch out for this guy".

Everything he said in that movie was a direct parroting of Anthony Robbins and others. Not an original thought in that guys brain.

I spent 10 years of my life as a franchise for Anthony Robbins and Associates, spending 1000s of hours in seminar environments that entailed firewalking, parachuting, ropes courses etc and safety was always a priority. If people wanted to opt out we let them opt out.

I hope Ray gets his butt handed to him in court.

[JP Micek]

Great breakdown Dave. Ditto the suggestion for Cambell's work, Heroes Journey & all. This should help open the eyes of a lot of people . . . until they're together with others in a group again. ;-)

[Lucia Mitro]

Dear Mr. Lakhani,

I would like to start my comment by stating that I know a little about you, I met you in person and greatly respect you for all you have done. You can check my posts on Twitter and you find your name there often.

I have to admit I have missed felling about this post. I certainly see this needed to be said. The horrible tragedy shook me in my core. I know James Ray. I learned a lot from him and there was a point in my life that a few words he said to me personally gave me a “kick” of faith in myself I needed to go on. Stating that, I also need to say I wish James would made different decision but it is so easy to point fingers right now. There was great work done in the metaphysical field and this tragedy is a huge step back. My heart goes to all affect by this. Especial families that lost their loved ones.

You stated:”The real purpose of this article is to explore how people get persuaded to a point where they will follow anyone and do anything regardless of how illogical or dangerous it seems.”
Yes, there are a lot of crooks there that use and mislead people; suddenly everyone is a guru in this field.
I just do not feel James Ray is the horrible person. I do not feel he intended for people to die.
I have my share of people that I wish I never met. I worked with “gurus” that pretended to serve when all they want to count dollars.
I can see where you are coming from and believe me I am right there with you.

Well, you took his sales copy apart. You bolded some techniques he used .Well to me this is all it is – a sales copy, marketing, PR.

You do write those (sales copies) to right? You to use same techniques (to some extend) to. Your clients choose to work with you because you are great in what you do. In my opinion, your copy and your expertise in some cases were what got people buy the product, not product itself.

As I stated before I greatly respect you for all you do. You are amazing person and it is an honor to know you. However, I do appreciate work what James Ray did.
As I urge my clients to do- I am eager to learn for every single person I encounter, I take what feels right to me and leave what does not. I miss sometimes and get burned but I know better next time.

Dear Dave,
Please keep up the great work

Love Lucia

[Rob Northrup]

Dave, great post.

I hadn't heard about this tragedy but people will certainly follow authority especially when challenged to puch past limits by someone that they think knows more than they do.

This reminds me of the Richard Branson reality show "Rebel Billionaire" where the contestants had to perform various tasks. Some of them were marketing oriented, some were Daredevil oriented, such as bungee jumping.

On challenge, he set up an elaborate stunt, the person was going to get into a barrel with Branson and go over a huge waterfall-- the 360 foot drop at Victoria Falls in a "high tech barrel".

(Branson never had any intention of going through with it). The contestants overcame his rational logical thinking which told him that this would likely kill him, and agreed to do the stunt.

At this point Branson told him it was a test, and it was much too risky and eliminated him...

watch starting about 5 minutes on this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrA__e6s1kg

Rob Northrup

[Cosmic Connie]

What a superb job you have done here, Dave, not only of covering the standard manipulative tactics that self(ish)-help gurus use, but also of analyzing the reasons so many people are vulnerable to these tactics.

Like you, I would hesitate to call James Ray and his ilk sociopaths (though some may well be), but they definitely seem narcissistic, as you aptly illustrated in point 11 of your "process" list above: "When things go wrong, bring it back to the leader's pain, rally the true believers around him, get them to talk about how terrible the leader feels and have them express what his internal condition is, make it about his suffering not that of the affected. Turn the attention to the teachings and the teacher not the failure."

This certainly seems to be what James Ray is doing now.

While I have my doubts that this incident will put a real damper on the multi-billion-dollar self-help biz, it might, at the very least, cause some of those who were wavering to finally see the whole "Secret" franchise for the vacuous, greedy enterprise it has been from the beginning.And that's a good start.

It's just too bad that people had to die in order for that awakening to come about.

[Dave Lakhani]

Thanks to all who have left comments so far, I appreciate your input.

Let me be really clear. As I mentioned in the post, It isn't my purpose to say whether or not James Ray is guilty of anything, that is up to the authorities. I'm interested in demonstrating how groups are persuaded and how otherwise rational, logical people become sheeple, which in this case can and did turn deadly. It is important to understand so that we avoid much larger tragedies like the Guyana/Jim Jones tragedy or even a repeat of genocide like the Holocaust. It is also important to understand so that you can recognize the signs and make sound decisions for yourself.

Do I use sales and marketing? Of course, but I only sell things that have solid scientific, psychological underpinnings and not psuedo-science or promise things like teaching the spiritual enlightenment of Samurai warriors. Just because you can say something that causes people to be fooled doesn't mean you should.

Keep the comments coming!
Dave Lakhani

[Sherri Frost]

Your comments as always are right on target. There is a fine line between persuasion and manipulation. That line is crossed regularly by self help gurus who only want to help themselves in the end. People are often willing participants in this manipulation because they feel that it removes their decision in the process as well as their responsibility. You rightly point out that people are looking for a 'magic pill' which does not exist. Rather, it takes persistent, consistent effort to make progress. I will be following this story to see what the repercussions are for James Arthur Ray.

[Arthur Goldwag]

Very interesting post. Whether or not Ray's following qualifies as a cult, he uses all the techniques that cult leaders do and puts them in the service of his narcissism.

Arthur Goldwag
author of CULTS, CONSPIRACIES, & SECRET SOCIETIES

[Alex Alexander]

Dave as usual you are right on track.
Call it what you want cult self help church politics. All the same really
It Is truely incredible the power that can be wielded by shaping the words you use.
I love this quick story.
Grandpa use to tell me don't pay attention to money seek joy and find hapiness so I didn't pay any attention to money and it was all stolen (By grandpa)
I never fully trust anyone with an offering plate.
Funny how they are always the ones insisting you call the something bigger than yourself by the same name they call it.
What happened to the good ol days when spiritual leaders lived in the desert and ate locusts?
Todays gurus are pansies by comparison
Alex Alexander
Author of
The Great Big Boook on Twitter
Featuring a chapter of thoughts from Dave Lakani's stream

[Alex Alexander]

Dave,
Promise you, I did put the h in your name.
My iPhone corrected it for me.
Is there a post in you about the cult of the
iPhone?
Pretty sure this little piece of metal and plastic
has me under it's spell.
Thanks for your work.

[Ryan Healy]

Dave - Thanks for putting together this post about why people do illogical things.

One of the telling things about the people who died is that they were actually group leaders back in their home towns and/or had been following James Ray for many years.

Clearly, they were "true believers" who were strongly predisposed to do anything that James told them to do.

Ryan

[tomjustin.com]

Dave, you are as insightful as ever in this piece, and it's an important one at that.

I think it was Zig Ziglar who said, "The opposite of courage is not cowardice but conformity."

That's the power of group think in almost any hierarchical situation.

While in my 20's I enrolled in the hottest course of it's time, EST. Late in the morning, with no break in hours, an elderly lady in front of me got up and headed up the aisle.

They were famous for not allowing bathroom breaks or other comforts. The trainer stopped and addressed her, asking where she thought she was going.

She was clearly embarrassed. The ensuing dialogue was abrasive and verbally threatening. The entire audience, including me, sat there and watched her pain. She explained that she'd recently had surgery, which was why she had to leave.

When he continued his vebal assault with her frozen in place, in tears, I finally got up and told her to just keep going and began to walk with her.

The trainer was going nuts, screaming at us. I turned around and suggested something to the effect that he go fornicate himself. The word was harsher.

The audience remained in shocked silence, looking back at this ogre, as he finalized his abuse by telling us to get out for good.

Only one other person stood up and protested and left with us. There were over 500 in the room.

That was the most important lesson I could have learned, and I was ashamed that it had taken me that long to stand in protest.

Some of our modern day gurus, politicians, religious leaders, ad agencies and "celebrities" have well learned these super persuasion techniques.

We have to be the guardians of our own minds and souls and what you are doing with posts like this is putting that out in 3-D.

Thank you, Dave.

Tom Justin
Not A Guru

[Blake Thomas]

Your post is brilliant and timely. It demonstrates exactly why our country (and perhaps our world) is in the situation it's in. We blindly follow authority figures in the media, schools, religious institutions and government, regardless of whether or not they are qualified to lead.

Our common sense is challenged, diverted and often hijacked -- day after day -- and no one bothers to pay attention.

Your post reminds me of an air raid siren blaring in an increasingly deaf world... a bright strobe light flashing in the land of the blind... a valiant attempt at a serious warning that is thwarted by a docile, submissive and totally passive society.

I hope we wake up soon.

I look forward to your future posts.

Blake Thomas
http://www.coversis.com
"It’s what they’re doing to your brain when you’re not paying attention..."

[Stage Hypnotist Simone]

David, Thank you for writing this article. I attendend a James Ray live event about a month ago and James gave me a ten dollar bill for a dollar. I made a video (on my youtube channel) as I "put it back into the universe" Mysterious, huh.

I agree that persuasion skills held by anyone come with tremendous responsibility. You taught me the best of everything I know about persuasion. If you look at my youtube videos, I teach people the truth about lies because I want people to have fuller, better, more meaningful lives with real power. I owe YOU, David, for starting me on that path (especially since your Renegades of Persuasion Event).

James Ray is coming back to vegas in a couple weeks and I'm invited again. Do I want to go? I think not.

I enjoyed Ray's presentation. He's very good. I have nothing against him. Really. I realize you also have no animosity towards him. He did not go into that sweat lodge wanting to kill people.

That's not enough. Persuasive skill comes with tremendous responsibility.

Sometimes I shoot my videos in front of my library. There sits a copy of Mein Kampf by Adolf Hilter, containing the mindworks of a persuasive genious--for all the wrong reasons.

Bottom Line: People, even without evil intent, such as that of Hitler, can do a lot of harm by misusing persuasive talent, or simply by not paying attention to the negative results when you are not properly administering responsibility over your persuadees.

I probably didn't express that as well as I could. Just understand: Be responsible for the powerful effects of your very persuasive words, actions, marketing, everything that you do to persuade. Have a back up plan for your clients and students of your persuasion. Be there for them--for life.

Love you, David. Thanks again for this empowering and well thought out article on a very painful topic.

[Duff]

Great article Dave. Thanks for adding your psychological knowledge to understanding this situation.

[Joy Weston]

"Just the idea" that someone else has the
answers we all seem to be searching for...
in any area of our lives...makes us do stupid things. And if we can pay more, do more, risk more--then of course that must mean that it has so much more value than any inner wisdom we could generate on our own.
WOW...en-mass, we sure did buy into one well scipted snow job...that is literally
killing us!
James Arthur Ray certainly did not create this situation to kill anyone...but from all that I have read, he sure didn't make sure his guests were safe...starting from a poorly constructed Sweat Lodge, to under-standing the basic steps to fasting and coming out of fasting etc.
Does that make him guilty? Damn straight!
That's the good and the bad that comes with stepping up as the leader people are followng and trusting their minds and bodies too.
Now if this opens all our eyes to our wishful thinking of who and what will save us...maybe this horrifc event will have some meaning.
Thanks Dave. Joy Weston

[Dr. Lisa Van Allen]

Brilliant piece Dave. The use of social manipulation to equate a benign even beneficial idea/concept/act with an unacceptable one was mastered by Edward Bernays (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH402F30wwM). The idea of equating deeper spirituality with starving yourself and then cramming yourself in an overcrowded sweatlodge would generally be rejected. A group of seekers put their bodies, souls and spirits into the care of someone they trusted. Those of us who train, market, coach, minister or use persuasion to "help" others need to be aware and be cautious about exerting our powers of influence and persuasion. Ray wasn't there just to promote spirituality. He was making a lot of money and using crowd psychology to do it. What he did, in my opinion, was unethical and negligent.
Thanks for using your gifts Dave to challenge us to THINK!
Dr. Lisa Van Allen

[JimZaccaria]

Once again, Dave, you clarify and bring to Light How and Why there are so Few Free Thinkers in our [relatively] Free Society. The masses have been taught all too well to self denegrate and Follow the Leader, Succumb to Authority, no matter the cost...Taught To Believe that they couldn't possibly - Know Enough to Question Authority ... or ... Self-Regulate. When will people 'Get' that their 'Guru' is Within, IS Them and Not outside somewhere by whatever name, living or dead. I'm glad to say I know you and that You Shed Light on Mis-Information. You Show people How and Where they've been 'Done To' I hope that 'we' as a society 'Wake-Up' soon. Another point I'd share is a question I've heard asked often by my Native Brothers...When will White People STOP 'Playing Indian' and Disrespecting Native Culture? If one [or any group] desires any type of 'Native Experience' I'm certain there ARE Those in the Indian Nation who would be Willing Guides...Those who would preserve the Integrity both of the Ceremony and the 'Nation'. Doing so would ensure the Safety of participants And Save Lives.[If someone reading this requires contact with someone in the 'Nation' please feel free to contact me and I will get you 'connected' with the right people through my Native friends]. Just a couple of My thoughts on the subject...or are they?

[Donna Barnette]

Well, Dave, without saying "I told you so" let me just say that I told my friends so! It is good to see him exposed.

I joined two girlfriends in NY to see Mr. Ray a couple of years ago. This after a group of "Pop Spritualists" I had been hanging around with, and I, went to one of his free seminars.

What I witnessed at the NY venue was a cult leader. James and Mr. Jones have everything in common. Two peas in a pod. The hours were overwheleming; few breaks; late late times to get food; late endings; early morning starts. On the second day after witnessing Mr. Ray's absolute verbal attacks on some apparently vulnerable people I advised my freinds that the guy was a fraud and dangerous. I wanted to leave. They did not. I spent the rest of the weekend in my room waiting for the time when a plane would take me out of the cult setting and back to Chicago!

The strangest thing happened next. Three days after returning to Chicago I was hospitalized with a partial bowel obstruction. Never happened before. Never happened again since. And as bizzare as it sounds I felt it was somehow tied the experience in NY. Kind of back to Gestal theory--my body was speaking the only real truth of my experience.

I wrote a letter to Oprah (she's not completely out of the Ray category--but I don't think she is evil), advising her of what I witenssed in NY and suggesting she send a "secret shopper" to one of his seminars before continuing to associate with him in any way.

By the way, all of Ray's "I will answer all your questions" sessions provide the exact same answer to every question the audience comes up with. It's this: "Buy another seminar on that subject and you'll get your answers."

[Mary Goulet]

Great posts, everyone. My question is, why would a coach, consultant, leader of any sort, who is espousing their teachings "will change your life" want those very same people to abnegate their gut knowingness? A "real" teacher wants their students to grow and learn from their teachings so they can be independent of him, not dependent on him.

Sounds like James' ego is at work if needs to control his following.

The best gift he could give people is a sense of trust in themselves more than trusting him. If that was being taught maybe more of them would have crawled past him out of the sweat lodge, saving their lives as well as his career and reputation.

Author/coach of Go With Your Gut

[MaryAine Curtis]

Thank you Dave for an exceptional and timely message. I really appreciate what you had to say. If's a long road learning to follow one's own heart and guidance and any mind control techniques have been experienced and we all have had some.
I like Tom Justin's post on the EST seminar. It takes guts to stand up to the guru and help someone that is caught in the abuse.
Last week in San Luis Obispo a young girl was brutally attacked while walking with her mother at 1:30 P.M. Only one person came forward as a witness and he lives in Australia and has gone home. The perp was not caught. The girl has her jaw wired shut.
This is another result of people not wanting to get involved or take a stand or make a move. It makes it more important to teach young people to trust their gut so they hopefully do not become sheep.
Keep talking, You're a big necessary voice. Thank you, MaryAine

[Nicole]

Great post, Dave, well thought out. I have participated in sweat lodges (so far all led by white people who had been taught by American Indian people). The facilitators were always very humble and utterly concerned with everyone's safety and wellbeing, knew exactly what they were doing, never coerced anyone, and charged a very reasonable price - the most I ever paid for such an experiene was $200.
Fasting, drinking and eating were all done at times and in ways that were biologically appropriate to the situation, with a lot of care going into the foods offered both before and after the sweat.
My biggest worry whenever a story like this hits the media is that it reflects badly on all those teachers and facilitators out there who are doing a wonderful job of empowering their clients and making an honest living that way, while at the same time almost everyone seems to be willing to be completely bamboozled by a government using the same marketing and PR techniques to make people do stupid things that are harmful to themselves only on a much bigger scale with a much bigger impact.

[twitter.com/JayGaddis]

Great post. Thanks!

I just began to learn about marketing last year and went to several internet marketing workshops to learn the game. As one who is in the spiritual, self-help field and a facilitator of transformational workshops etc, it is very hard to not use typical BS marketing tactics and still be in my integrity. This post helped.

Thanks bro.

Jayson

[twitter.com/patwin]

Hi Dave,
Excellent post - excellent points - thanks for putting it out there. I was saddened to learn about the James Arthur Ray Sweat lodge tragedy. He does not have the proper humility to lead a sweat.

I have attended many sweats led by native pipe carriers. None of them are hard driving motivational persuasion experts. In fact, I would never have participated if they had been.

I'm not much of a joiner in popular social groups. I was raised in the southwest bible belt. I've seen it all. My family standards kept us away from those sideshows.

My wish here is that the sweat lodge ceremony itself doesn't get a bad rap. It's truly beautiful to go within with respectful people and get clear on your own journey. It's certainly not a necessary ritual, but, I feel fortunate to have experienced it. There is magic inside the sweat.